I want to first place what it is that LookinforLucy posted on her blog. I will not post the responses as it is the actual post itself that I take issue with.
I have said that I will answer these items on my time schedule when I have had time to research the ideas set forth and have time to make sense out of what the exact issue at the heart of the post is.
So here is what LookinforLucy posted:
"Background information regarding the below questions and answer session from Theology for Dummies, on the blog stream. Mr. StealthArachnid is a LDS “High Priest” in his Mormon church. We are learning on this blog, the comparison of Gnosticism and the Mormon doctrine. During the questions and answers that came up on this blog – these questions came to light.
It is in my opinion worth showing just how off the “Christian track” some of the LDS (Mormon) teachings are in their church, compared to Christianity. Please note that this is copied from TFD blog. I wanted to continue the dialogue here on my blog. Here we go…
Dear Thomisticguy – You asked below for assistance with Stealth’s demand.
StealthArachnid wrote: Thom: Please find a single reference by an LDS Prophet or General Authority where they assert we "elevate human effort and special human knowledge" above the atonement. Just because we respond in trying to be more faithful doesn't mean we have a diminished sense of His atoning sacrifice for us.
Thomisticguy’s Response: I do not recall making this claim against LDS theology. Perhaps someone else would like to take this on.
LookinforLucy’s response: President Joseph Fielding Smith has written: “man may commit certain grievous sins – according to his light and knowledge-that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved, he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone – so far as in his power lies – that that sin, certain circumstances will not avail…Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone as far as possible, in their behalf” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, pp.133-138)
Let me add: (according to the Mormon Doctrine): That this is one of the reasons that LDS Legislators who understood its provisions could and did use their influence to get a form of capital punishment written into the laws of various states of the union so that the blood of murders could be shed.
I think that should cover this subject of LDS Prophets teaching that their individual blood atonement is needed over Jesus Christ. Interesting – don’t you think? Any Questions? Don't you think it kinda "slaps" Jesus right in the face and says You're not enough? Are you Shocked?"
==Now I want to respond to this issue of a blood atonement. As I feel it is the crux of the post here. We do know that if you deny the Holy Ghost that you are beyond the savalation of Jesus Christ and that all murders must be atoned for.
It is for this reason that many Christians believe in capital punishment and not abortion. However if people read their Old Testament a bit more they would understand that these are not new revelations given to Joseph Smith Jun the first Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka the LDS Church aka the Mormons. It is also not something that was implemented by Joseph Fielding Smith when he quoted Joseph Smith Jun.
Hold on to your hats here becasue this is an issue that goes back to before the people of Isreal were sent into the promised land.== The Lord made it very clear when He spoke to Moses in Numbers 35:9 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come over Jordan into the land of Canaan;
11 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at• unawares.
12 And they shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger•; that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment.
13 And of these cities which ye shall give six cities shall ye have for refuge.
14 Ye shall give three cities on this side Jordan, and three cities shall ye give in the land of Canaan, which shall be cities of refuge.
15 These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger•, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.
16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer• shall surely be put to death.
17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
18 Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
19 The revenger• of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.
20 But if he thrust• him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;
21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.
22 But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have• cast upon him any thing without laying of wait,
23 Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm:
24 Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:
25 And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high• priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.
26 But if the slayer shall at any time come without• the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled;
27 And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood:
28 Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession.
29 So these things shall be for a statute of judgment unto you throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.
31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction• for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.
32 And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.
33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the• land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
34 Defile• not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.
===These rules were set forth and sanctuary came from this concept of refuge cities. There are other cocepts covered in this part of the chapter that cover all concievable possibilities of murder, premeditated, out of anger and accidental. In all of these there is a punishment and that punsishment in the first two cases are clearly a blood death of the murderer to cleanse the blood death of the murdered victim. In the last there is an allowance made for a life to be spared as long as they stay within the bounderies of the sanctuary of the place where the high priest who was there during the trial has passed away then, the person who had accidently killed some one could finally go home, however; if he goes home before the high priest dies then he can be killed by the avenger of the accidently murdered person. Therefore a righteous blood cleansing of the blood killing.
To me the most important part of this section of the chapter is the last verse:
34 Defile• not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.
Where the Lord dwelleth the ground must be hallowed and the way to hallow ground of spilt blood is with a blood atonement.
Now if you compare this concept to the blood atonement of Jesus Christ in the Garden of Gethesemane then it makes perfect sense that a blood atonement would be necessary before all sins would be forgiven. As all laws given to Moses by the Lord were given to keep the Isrealites on the straight and narrow path that would lead them to the Lord so when he would appear as a babe they would recognize him and many did.
So as you contemplate the idea of a blood atonement and how "cruel and inhumane" it is; comtemplate this that by denying the right to a blood atonement all murders are denied the atoning sacrafice of Jesus Christ. For the law demands a blood atonement and the law must be fulfilled.
All of the chapters in Numbers talk endlessly about how to restore something that was stolen, killed, accidently killed, the endless reasons for burnt offerings and it seems to go on an on and the reason for it all seems to get lost in the message because people skip over or sleep through the last verse.
The whole reason for the need for a blood atonement is to fulfill the law and to show the Isrealites what was to come for their atonement. A blood atonement to be made by a perfect man, even Jesus Christ. However for the atonement to be in effect full restitution and repentance must be achieved. In an eye for an eye society where blood atonements are the law, without the ability to do so leaves one beyond the reach of the blessing of receiving the fullest ability of Jesus Christ to atone for that sin.
The odd thing is that I have no recolection of reading in the Book of Mormon or in the New Testament where specifically the blood atonement for murder was fulfilled as part of the laws of Moses that didn't have to be followed anymore. Many were fulfilled and additional laws were given. However, I have not found a place where a murdered person's blood never stopped crying from the ground for revenge.===
So in ending, eventhough we do have the death penalty the Prophets are right. Without the blood atonement, Jesus Christ can not atone for their sins as they have been denied the ability to atone for their crime in the manner in keeping with the laws as set forth, along with the other laws such as the 10 Commandments.
Consider who has control of the world, it is Satan and it pleases him very much to deny the ability of a murderer to be forgiven by Jesus Christ due to the lack of the blood atonement which he knows is part of the laws of the Scriptures. Beth.